Junior+Spies+Wiki

Part One: __1984__ Diana Weisman and Terry Ely

Freedom is slavery Ignorance is strength**
 * //Topic://** What does the creed really mean? Isn’t it made up of words that contradict each other? Is Orwell creating a plot device to make the reader wonder? Did you notice this?
 * War is peace


 * “In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it” (Orwell 80).
 * This quote relates because just as 2+2 does not equal 5, war cannot mean peace and etc.
 * Orwell introduces this form of brainwashing as “double think,” or a complete alteration of reality.
 * Words go from one extreme to the other
 * Not only does Orwell build suspense on how far this creed will go, but he makes the reader question the sanity of the people following it.
 * Parson’s character is a clear example of ignorance being strength because he willingly follows orders, doesn’t ask questions and is rewarded with a secure lifestyle despite his unintelligence.
 * Eventually the creed itself will become obsolete because the Party will strip all rebellious words of their meanings
 * This idea of brainwashing brings connections to __A Clockwork Orange__
 * Is becoming a "clockwork orange" right despite its wrong methods?


 * //Topic//**: Are Alex and Winston similar characters? Are they more similar in that both are contributing negatively to an already poor society or different in that Winston wants change? Do we have more sympathy for Alex in __A Clockwork Orange__ or Winston?
 * The authors greatly contribute to where sympathy is held
 * Because Burgess draws a fine line between good and evil-making the reader choose-the characters situations are different
 * Alex is more appreciated for his rebellion of society, despite the fact that he does so by committing crimes, because Winston is silently standing by and adding to the chaos the Party creates
 * However, Winston is confined in his situation because it is indeed life or death. This draws more sympathy from the reader because he has no choice, whereas Alex does
 * Alex also shows signs of WANTING control and becoming a dictating leader whereas Winston is against it
 * Other outside relations: Nicole Kidman’s __The Invasion__ (2007) aka "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"
 * An alien epidemic takes over people so they become truly emotionless and robotic


 * //Topic//**: Is Winston crazy? What is ‘crazy’ in a society such as his?
 * Because Orwell writes Winston as an “every man” (average name, average class, average occupation) it is easy to relate and thus see why he would succumb to such a paranoid state in his society
 * The reader is forced to ask whether Winston is simply paranoid or does what he believe (people following him etc.) really happening?
 * In a chaotic society like Oceania, he might actually be sane.


 * //Topic//**: Is Orwell attempting to model this society after infamous types of governments such as Nazi Germany or Soviet Union or is he showing us what could happen in our democracy?
 * “Books like Orwell’s are powerful warnings, and it would be most unfortunate if the reader smugly interpreted 1984 as another description of Stalinist barbarism, and if he does not see that it means us, too” (Fromm 326)
 * This quote from the Afterward written by Erich Fromm, greatly sums up the importance of this question
 * While it can be agreed that these previous dictatorships paint a picture in our minds of the world Orwell has created, it is also a tool to have us live by the cliché “learn from the past”


 * //Topic//**: What role do the proles play in the story? Why haven’t they revolted?
 * Proletarians, also known as proles, live very neglected lives, relatively free of Party monitoring.
 * Proles are not expected to understand that they are exploited by the Party as a source of cheap labor. This may explain why they are unable and/or unwilling to rebel. These people are known as the “average” citizens. They are concerned about home and family. They are only required to show a small amount of patriotism.
 * Yet, the Thought Police are aware of their behaviors and will eliminate anyone who are capable of causing trouble.
 * This is one of the major struggles within the book because many would ask why they have not yet revolted. If the proles revolt, wouldn’t it make the world in which they live such a better place? It happens that Winston comes to realization that proles are simply incapable of doing so. They constantly have the pressure of the Thought Police on their backs, and this is just another reason why they have yet to revolt against the government.


 * //Topic//**: What is the ongoing connection between __A Clockwork Orange__ and __1984__?
 * In __A Clockwork Orange__ the idea of no freedom of expression or thinking; to be the person you want to be. Orwell gives them the freedom to make decisions other than good or bad. He really opens up the possibilities of life. Winston wants change yet he is working for the government. Alex on the other hand may know that he is doing wrong, but he is proving that he is free to make his own decisions. Alex would rather be free and mean than be controlled like Winston and life a life in seclusion.
 * There is the constant reminder about the important of freedom of expression/ freedom of speech. In both books, the people of higher power plan to take on those below them in the easy manner, which is to make them all the same. This way, they can eliminate any differences and subsidize the problems.
 * The government in __A Clockwork Orange__ demonstrates the Ludovico Technique, which causes Alex to transform from a person who was once able to choose his actions between good, and evil on his own, to a person who now is only able to make the right decision, despite his beliefs otherwise. This raises the question of whether or not God would rather have a person not have the chance to make a moral choice, or rather that a person cannot make his own decision, but always make the right one?
 * In __1984__, Winston does have the moral option to make the right decision to step in, yet he feels as though he is incapable. This is the biggest change between both novels. Yet, the same message is being sent about one’s own choice to make a difference in life, and whether or not they take the risk to do so.

//**Comments: Well organized discussion notes. I would recommend following this format for the rest of your posts. Remember to proofread and edit - make sure sentences/questions are coherent/grammatically correct, punctuated and spelled correctly. Keep high level of discussion going!**//

Part Two: __1984__ Bianca Minuto & Monica Efman

//**Topic:**// Do we get the answer to the Party's slogan in this section?
 * The Party keeps people in poverty in order to keep them from rebelling.
 * The Party does not give people the resources they would need to rebel
 * "War is peace."
 * Ironically, the war enables the party to keep the people ignorant in other aspects of life.
 * War increases patriotism and nationalism. It also channels hatred onto one one specific opponent.

//**Topic:**// What effect does the control of the past have on the citizens of Oceania?
 * It gives them no basis for comparison- prevents the comparison of their current life to anything else.
 * "Was life better before or now?"
 * History does not provide a precedent or a reference point for opposition or comparison
 * Yet another means of the Party's manipulation of reality and perception
 * "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
 * The citizens are spoon-fed the rewritten past. For that reason, the citizens change their vendetta whenever they are promoted to do so.
 * Julia did not remember four years in the past when Oceania was at war with another place.

//**Topic:**// Julia v. Winston
 * Julia
 * She does not care about the truth, but rather she is solely concerned with what actually affects her.
 * She is “rebelling by not caring.”
 * “Rebels from the waist down.” She is an ironic character considering she is part of the Junior Anti-Sex League.
 * Personal rebellion
 * Rebels for personal pleasure
 * Winston
 * He is more idealistically concerned.
 * His focus is upon the truth and its value.
 * He wonders “why?"
 * Too trusting of others (i.e. Charrington & O'Brien)
 * Which is character is more worthy of praise?
 * While Julia's pursuit of pleasure is valid, her concerns involve only herself.
 * Winston is more heroic because he cares about ideas like truth and how living conditions. He cares more about “the grand scheme of things.” (We are trained to love the hero.)
 * Who is more active?

//**Topic:**// Respond to: “sanity is not statistical.”
 * Who's crazy- Winston? or society?
 * The answer is no because there is an objective truth.
 * However the answer can also be yes in the way that the party subjectively controls the meaning of sanity.
 * Winston is not denying objective reality
 * Party's subjective reality does, in fact, make "sanity statistical"
 * What is sanity in Winston's society? Does it mean to be against the norm? Does our interpretation of insanity stretch too far to understand Winston's concerns?
 * In Part One, Winston questions his lunacy. Is he a lunatic because he thinks unconventionally in comparison to the rest of society?

//**Topic:**// What does Mr. Charrington symbolize in Part Two?
 * He is an illustration of the immense power of doublethink.
 * It's surprising that he can know things from the outside world, but remain untouched by its appeal
 * He displays that “big brother is ALWAYS watching.”
 * Was Charrington a trustworthy character?
 * If you look through Winston's perspective, he seems to be too trusting.
 * However, he is almost too convenient of a character to //not// be suspicious of.

//**Topic:**// What are the benefits of living in such a society as Oceania?
 * No crime, racism, or laws
 * What stops them from committing crimes? Does thoughtcrime hinder the ability to commit all crimes?
 * Why would you want to kill someone if you have no emotional feeling toward them? Does jealousy exist? Does hatred exist outside of Hate Week or the Two Minute Hate?
 * Who's to stop people from murdering, etc.
 * In a hate-driven society, why don't hate-driven crimes such as murder take place?

//**Topic:**// Did Orwell develop Julia as a trustworthy character or as one to be cautious of?
 * Julia is presented as a red herring
 * Reasons not to trust her: cunning, devious, rebellious
 * Just because Winston trusts her does not mean the reader should (for example, Charrington)

Part III Discussion: Young Kim, Bill Murphy

//**Topic:**// On pg. 263, the only justification Orwell provides for the pursuit of power is that it is simply desirable. Why does he provide no other rationale?
 * Perhaps there is no other reason than to fulfill our selfish cravings for power.
 * It develops O'Brien's aura of omnipotence.
 * Orwell explores (and provides his own answers regarding) the questionability of totalitarianism, constant surveillance, and psychological manipulation. Perhaps he could not explain why people sought power.

//**Topic:**// What do Winston's dreams signify?
 * Winston’s dreams of the “Golden Country”, his family, and Julia indicate his grasp of humanity (Orwell 275). They reveal Winston’s doublethoughts. The “Golden Country” is a haven away from Oceania- there is hope and individualism (Orwell 275). Dreams of his family and Julia remind Winston that he has stronger loyalties other than his allegiance to the Party.
 * Winston teaches himself to “crimestop” (Orwell 278). As a result of this conditioning, will his dreams stop?
 * It does not matter; if Winston does remember these dreams, he will merely dismiss them as “false memories" (Orwell 296).
 * Winston's dreams could also be thought of as the last pieces of his humanity, as they are his only link to the concepts of freedom and the memories he has of the past. As the end of the novel, when Winston dismisses his dreams and memories, his is destroying the last vestiges of his humanity.

//**Topic:**// What is the Brotherhood's purpose? Does it really exist?
 * As far as the Party is concerned, the Brotherhood exists so that the people of Oceania have a target at which to direct their rage. It could also exist as a trap for thoughtcriminals (at least, it did for Winston).
 * As we see on page 260, O'Brien does not tell Winston whether the Brotherhood is real or not.
 * As far as the average citizen of Oceania is concerned, it doesn't matter whether the Brotherhood is real or not.

//**Topic:**// Why does Winston remain so trusting of O'Brien?
 * He might see O'Brien as his protector: O'Brien is directing Winston's torture and interrogation, so he is ensuring that Winston does not die from too much physical abuse.
 * He could be thankful that O'Brien is taking a paternalistic attitude towards him.
 * This trust might simply be the result of Winston's distress, similar to Stockholm Syndrome.

//**Topic:**// Are humans changeable? (from O'Brien's quote on pg. 269)
 * The novel as a whole (and especially Part 3) suggests that human nature is mutable.
 * This leads to a discussion of human nature: are we born with "human nature," or are we influenced by our surroundings? This is also known as the debate over "nature vs. nurture."
 * This also relates to the Party's methods of control: the Party conditions people to act a certain way so that they can be controlled.

//**Topic:**// Can mankind forget their own humanity? (from the Afterword)
 * Erich Fromm, the author of the afterword, describes //1984// as a warning to all societies and cultures, not just Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia.
 * In other words, Orwell is warning everyone that every society has the potential to decline into totalitarianism. This makes sense given that many of the Party's methods of control are based upon technology: as we see today, the government does have the ability to keep a watchful eye over the populace. Orwell is warning us that we should not always allow them to do so in order to prevent society from degenerating into a totalitarianism.
 * This raised the question of how realistic Orwell's fictional world actually is.
 * It seems difficult, if not impossible, to create a society based upon changing human nature in such a radical way.
 * The idea that this could happen to the whole world also seems somewhat absurd.

//**Topic:**// Does the Party control reality?
 * The Party has succeeded in controlling its citizens’ perspective of reality. Their thoughts are overwhelmingly colored by the Party’s pervasive propaganda, so much so that their biased version of “truth” must be approached with skepticism.
 * The younger generations must rely on the reality provided by the Party because they have no precedent or point of reference that their world was any different.
 * By refusing to acknowledge the older generations’ memories, the Party dismisses the notion that a pre-Ingsoc world ever existed.
 * To answer the question on a metaphysical level, we would first have to answer the question "is there an objective reality?" If so, then the Party clearly cannot control reality just by controlling the way people see it. If reality does not exist subjectively, however, then the Party does indeed control reality by controlling people's minds and memories.

//**Topic:**// What were your thoughts when O'Brien equates Winston, the "last man", to a "bag of filth" (Orwell 270, 272)?
 * O’Brien calls Winston the “last man” because he is still a freethinking, questioning individual (Orwell 270). The Party desires citizens who are voids or machines, since machines (essentially, technology) are more evolved or advanced than mere, "disgusting... emaciated" mortals (Orwell 272).

//**Topic:**// Is Winston more or less insane at the end of the novel?
 * This depends on the true definition of sanity and reality.
 * According to Orwell (and anyone else who believes in an independent, objective reality) Winston should be considered less sane than at the beginning of the novel: he denies empirical evidence and convinces himself that his memories are fake.
 * According to the Party, which believes in a subjective reality, Winston is //more// sane because he has controlled his thoughts and has re-learned doublethink.
 * This also relates to one of the topics explored in Part II, the idea that sanity is statistical. The Party, of course, would assert that sanity is statistical, since they would want to brand anyone who refuses to accept their reality as insane. Of course, if we grant that an objective reality exists, then it follows that anyone who attempts to deny or deliberately mislead themselves should be considered insane.

//**Topic:**// How does Part III relate to "//A Clockwork Orange//?
 * The idea of freedom differs in both novels: for Alex, freedom is the ability to make moral choices, but for Winston it is the ability to express the truth.
 * As Winston explains in Part I, freedom is merely the freedom to say that 2 + 2 = 4. In Part III, it is revealed that the Party even has the ability to force people to deny this simple truth.
 * Both Alex and Winston’s behavior are altered by their government’s manipulation. They undergo forceful conditioning to obey the party’s doctrine, and despite any resistance, the governments’ efforts are eventually successful. Through physical torture and brainwashing, these "traitors" finally conform to the party's beliefs. Their citizens are not individuals, but tally marks to measure the government’s power.

Works Cited Orwell, George. __1984__. New York: Signet Classic, 1949